Talk:Hyrule
Ocarina v. Twilight please accept my ignorance of Twilight as I have not yet had the pleasure of playing it, but is the Hyrule map in that game simply an expanded version of the Ocarina map? Cymra37 00:14, 17 May 2007 (UTC) To answer your question the map in Twilight is similar to the map of Ocarina, but is fairly different. It shares a lot of the similar locations as O.O.T (such as Lake Hylia, Castle Town, and Hyrule Field) but also has a few new places as well (Ordon Village, Faron Woods, etc.). Also the pre existing locations have been rearranged and is pretty different from there appearance in O.O.T. For example Lake Hylia is still a freshwater lake with a few buildings around it, but is deeper wider, has no island in the middle of it, and almost every other landmark in it is missing or completely new. Also those places are located in completely new locations (for example Castle Town is now longer in the northern half of the map). So to answer your question although T.P's map is extended from O.O.Ts map, it is different enough to be a completely new map.--ShutUpNavi 01:43, 17 May 2007 (UTC) Not true; Lake Hylia still has the Water Temple islet, but the entrance of the temple became Lanayru's shrine, and the tree atop can be seen in Twilight Princess (though in advanced stages of decay). If you notice, the Great Bridge of Hylia was built across from those pillars near the Zora's Domain entrance in Ocarina of Time, and the Lakeside Laboratory has become part of Fyer and Falbi's Watertop Land of Fantastication. So you see, the similarities are definitely there (at least in tha canonical GCN version, where everything is the right way around). Rob64 00:25, 27 July 2008 (UTC)Rob 64 But I would think it is definitely an entirely different version of hyrule, as death mountain and kakariko village are both located towards the south in TP, and a fairly longer distance away from Castle town and Lake Hylia is located much closer to castle town in TP than OoT...--Twilight Princess (talk) 04:38, 26 June 2009 (UTC) Updated with new information the royal crest or the bird featured on the hylian shield is actually the ThunderBird from Zelda 2. However, there has been talk of it being a Roc, simular to kind of bird in Wind Waker and the boss's in Link's Awaking. Thunderbird actually happens to be related to the Roc, but ultimitly it is the ThunderBird. The spread wings, feet placement and color of the Thunterbird are key clues to this being true for the crest. The shield featured in Link to the Past's artwork happens to have more of the thunderbird's body shape, while the updated shield in OoT has the color Well what i think is that they really shouldn't have the section zant's invasion of hyrule because it is an article already in zeldapedia so i think you could just add that to somewhere and the article and get the same info. I don't think they should have that section on this article. Inaccuracies The article makes a lot of assumptions doesn't it? For one thing, The Minish Cap is meant to be the first game chronologically, and here it is said that it takes place in the New Hyrule founded by Link and Tetra. It also puts Four Swords Adventures before the events of The Minish Cap, which is impossible, since the Four Sword was forged in the latter. Was there a general consensus about this? It's just, this is a very inaccurate timeline of events. Rob64 00:20, 27 July 2008 (UTC)Rob 64 I think you'll find that the reason why nothing about the Minish Cap was mentioned in Ocarina of Time is because of the fact that the former was released after the latter. I believe Mr. Aonuma mentioned that Four Swords precedes Ocarina of Time, and since Minish Cap has to be before Four Swords (due to the Four Sword being forged in it, and Vaati turning into the wind mage for the first time), I think it's fairly obvious. Didn't you ever wonder what the significance of Ezlo giving Link a cap at the end was? It was intended to explain how the tradition of the hero wearing a cap came from. Also, before Minish Cap, there were no monsters in Hyrule; it was line any other world with normal animals. The Minish Cap shows how all monsters were brought into Hyrule. You see, Ocarina of Time was mentioned to be the first game, at the time of its release, but TMC was released afterwards. And of course, the reason why Hyrule in Minish Cap is different from that of Ocarina of Time, is because (apart from needing to design a Hyrule to work with a top-down GBA game) it is simply a different game. I wonder why the Hyrule in the Wind Waker (identical to that found in TMC and FSA, if I may point out) looked so different to that of OoT? I mean, they were the same, but why did they look so different I wonder? Hell, even places in TP were messed about with; Hyrule is only meant to have vague continuity. If they kept it exactly the same it would get unbelievably stale, unbelievably fast. Your Link and Tetra stuff, however, is merely wild conjecture; at the moment, they are sailing away from the Great Sea and The Realm of the Ocean King. Oh, and Hyrule was not established in the Civil War, as such. I notice that the Civil War article is also riddled with wild conjecture. Rob64 15:33, 27 July 2008 (UTC)Rob 64 And another thing; the Minish only appeared in TMC. Kinda odd how the legends of the Picori were never mentioned before or after, huh? You see every game, apart from OoT, is also stand-alone in terms of story, and I'm sorry for the tone I used in what I said before, but it's kinda hard not to talk down to someone acting the way that you are. Wild conjecture nothing; at the time of its release, Eiji Aonuma stated, quite clearly, that Four Swords was "the oldest game in the series, taking place long before Ocarina of Time". It's official, and I can't believe you didn't realise this as is. So if you want to contradict myself and Mr. Aonuma, go ahead, but it means (I'm afraid I can't dress this up) that you're wrong. I'm afraid, with regards to the clothes, that the idea was clearly retconned. What are you talking about? King Gustaf could have ruled Hyrule any number of ages ago, before TMC took place. As I have said, Hyrule was not "established" in the Civil War. It was still named Hyrule, and it still had a Hylian King; the war means nothing to this debate, and the Civil War article is riddled with inconsistencies, fan-theories, and ridiculously obscure conjecture. Very little of what's in that article is actually mentioned in the games. And of course, with the centuries between TMC and OoT, any number of things could have happened to the country and its monarchy. As for Zelda and Link's relationship; they were a different pair of characters, and could easily have met in different ways. OoT Link and Zelda met in childhood, and they weren't around after Link and Tetra. In TWW, a separate Link and Zelda met, and the same happened to the ALttP Link and Zelda, the TP Link and Zelda, etc. It just happens, at can happen at any stage in their lives, including childhood (in the case of TMC, through Link's grandfather). And I'm afraid "hence the name "Hero of Men." They were establishing a new home for the "race of Men"." is most certainly conjecture. It's very very weak. Sorry for shooting down your "evidence", but I'm here to keep things consistent, and true, and I'm pedantic enough not to want someone inserting false information into, of all things, an encyclopaedia. Just out of interest, did anyone else believe that TMC took place after OoT? And also, whereabouts would I have to go to present my own, and as far as I can tell comprehensive (I want to run it by people so that if there are any inconsistencies, they'll be rooted out), timeline? Rob64 22:37, 27 July 2008 (UTC)Rob 64 Oh, and with regards to Gustaf's reign, notice that according to the Deku Tree Sprout, "Some time ago, before the King of Hyrule unified this country, there was a fierce war in our world". The monarchy existed before the wars, and after. So, hypocrite... what is it that makes your flawed timeline of events accurate? Your failure to listen, or is it just that you're stubborn? I notice you ignored the fact that Eiji Aonuma, the director himself, has confirmed what I am saying. What's weird, is that you say I have given no evidence of substance, when I clearly have. I wouldn't like to debate the series as such, but I think an encyclopaedia's facts should at least be correct. Thinking outside the box is fine, until the director confirms otherwise, like here. I'm sorry if it ruins your inaccurate timeline, but ol' Eiji and I happen to agree on this one. The main problem here, is that you fail to understand that your 'facts' are refutable. In fact, they welcome contradiction. I've read everything you've said, I've thought about how the timeline could work that way (I owe you this courtesy, as does everyone, and I only hope that you will read my timeline with an open mind), and then I realised that it couldn't. Feel free to debate with people, just not the series director, okay? So, AuronKaizer, is Hero of Time 87 always so bigoted and immature? Jeez, this is exactly the kind of person an encyclopaedia doesn't need. I see he's corrupted virtually everything in several story sections. I'm sorry, Hero of Time 87, but AuronKaizer has a point; you are perhaps one of the most ignorant people I've seen here so far. Your mentality here has been that of a ten-year-old child (especially after your last comment, which is the kind of thing I'd hear frequently if I were a pre-school teacher. I'm surprised you didn't just say "nuh-uh", and leave it at that). You've basically 'researched' (there are an unbelievable amount of assumptions you've made in this so-called research, and I'm afraid that due to the inconsistencies, I abhor it with every fibre of my being) several things from several games, placed them in different time periods where contradictions have appeared, and you have refused, point-blank, to listen to the solutions for said contradictions, even when I based the corrections on cold, hard, irrefutable fact, backed by someone who knows more about the series than either of us could ever hope to: Eiji Aonuma. Since this is a wiki, if AuronKaizer here, and I, disagree with you, when only you say otherwise, we have formed a general concensus boycotting your messy suppositions, in favour of the truth. I really don't want to have to change huge chunks of an article like this one, but just because you've put a lot of time into your theories is not a viable reason to keep them after they have been disproven. I am giving you a chance to listen to reason. Taking it is not admitting defeat; in fact, if you didn't, it could be said that you have in fact, lost. AuronKaizer, do you agree with Hero of Time 87, or myself and Mr. Aonuma? If your decision is the latter we will have formed a concensus for the article to be righted, and I ask for your assistance in cleaning it up. Rob64 01:24, 28 July 2008 (UTC)Rob 64 Ugh, this is why I prefer to write in pages like Lake Hylia, and Spectacle Rock. I will tamper if AuronKaizer helps form the concensus. You clearly don't understand how an encyclopaedia works. Anyway, proof time: http://www.gameinformers.com/News/Story/200405/N04.05176.1915.59084.htm "EA: The GBA Four Swords Zelda is what we’re thinking as the oldest tale in the Zelda timeline. With this one on the GameCube being a sequel to that, and taking place sometime after that." You aren't going to bother reading the ranting? Well, to anyone who has, you've just backed up what I said. If anything, that implies a failure to listen, and the childish mentality I mentioned. Sorry to break your 'facts', by the way. I recommend this place: http://www.accidentsdirected.com/v6/index.aspx Rob64 01:42, 28 July 2008 (UTC)Rob 64 lake hylia has anyone else noticed how similar lake hylia is between oot and tp? tp's is much deeper, prolly for erosion over a hundred years. anyone else think fyer's hut could possibly be the old lakeside lab from oot? the lakebed temple looks a lot like the water temple to me too, but the entrance to lanayru's shrine looks like the entrance from oot. any thoughts on how this could've happned? DarkBeastGanon 01:26, 29 July 2008 (UTC) i kinda thought the same thing about fyer, since he seemed to own the shack that looked a little like the old lab. you think those old ruins by the gerdo mesa may have been where the gerudo fortress used to be? DarkBeastGanon 01:43, 29 July 2008 (UTC) This article is not called Link xD FA status Can we remove the cleanup template from here?--Power courage wisdom and time 00:43, 31 December 2008 (UTC) Several issues I totally agree with you. I think the biggest problem with this article tries to go too much into detail. For example we don’t need to know the value of a rupee for every game, nor do we need to every single place in Hyrule or how it was in each and every game. This page should only be a general overview about Hyrule, let the individual pages about these subjects go into further detail. IMO the article should be formatted like this. Overview. Just a quick intro to tell everyone what Hyrule is in the least detailed manner possible. History. Should be as neutral to the timeline as possible, no speculation/unconfirmed stuff. Depictions of Hyrule could be merged in here as well. Government and Economy. This section can talk about stuff such as rupees, the royal family, shops, and other stuff like this. Landmarks. This section needs to be trimmed down big time. All of the small, insignificant places that only appear in one game should not be mentioned. Maybe we can just make a list of Hyrule locations and have that linked here to include all the small places. Major locations such as Castle town and death mountain should remain, but not go too far into detail. People and Races. Self explanatory. A section about the different people and races that live in Hyrule. --ShutUpNavi 22:26, 29 January 2009 (UTC) A complete and total mess this is. I won't even go into the computer-crashing attribute. — Triforce 14( ) 05:42, 24 February 2009 (UTC) This seems like a good idea to me. I would like it if you could start that page for me please. I'll help as much as I can, although I won't be here that much for the next few weeks.--ShutUpNavi 20:13, 24 February 2009 (UTC) Wow Picture I have a really good picture that I think should be used to replace the map of OoT Hyrule in the Infobox. Feedback? I just think that we should use a TP map because its depiction of Hyrule is much more "recent."--PoogMaster 21:41, 30 March 2009 (UTC) thumb FA Link mother isn't neccesary… Geography It definitely belongs before the Gallery so I moved it. If someone could integrate it into the geography section that would be even better. I tried and didn't like how it looked. -Shorty1982 (talk) 13:41, March 4, 2010 (UTC) ImageMaps I could make Imagemaps (clickable images) for the maps in this article, unless of course such Imagemaps already exist somewhere else on this wiki. However, I would need help with the geography for all of the games apart from TP. If I was to make one, I would probably build it as a subpage of either this page, or a subpage of my user page.-- AM666999talk 15:14, October 20, 2010 (UTC) :Oh, just to point out, if this wiki does move then the new one will need extension ImageMap for this to work.-- AM666999talk 10:24, October 21, 2010 (UTC) ::You don't have to ask permission to make something like that on your own userpage, but we won't direct anyone towards that in the mainspace if you do. I do like the idea though, and have thought about it myself on several occasions. It'd probably be a good idea to post it in the forums, where more people are liable to see it and provide their input on the idea. --AuronKaizer ' 10:38, October 21, 2010 (UTC) :::'Okay, I've made a forum here.-- AM666999talk 19:00, October 21, 2010 (UTC) Is it basically a map that you can click on a location to go to that page? because of the way the locations are laid out in the minish cap, wind waker, oracle and link's awkening it's be very easy to do but it'd be a bit harder for the other games it would be a bit more awkward. If it could work it would be great navigation. Oni Link 15:07, October 21, 2010 (UTC) :Yes, it's just an image (in this case, a map), that you can click a part of to go to a page about that part. I don't really know what you mean about it being awkward for the other games, though. If more maps could be uploaded (such as island maps in Phantom Hourglass, and Province maps in TP) then it would be possible to make a system of ImageMaps using mainspace subpages or something similar so that when you click on say, the South East Sea on the PH world map you would be taken to the imagemap of the South East Sea chart instead of the main page about it. On the imagemap page there would of course be a link to the main page. So yes, it would be great for navigation, but to be used to it's full extent more maps would have to be uploaded. However, until then I could just use the maps that are already uploaded.-- AM666999talk 16:46, October 21, 2010 (UTC) Regions What makes a region worthy of mention in the infobox? Gerudo Dessert was just removed because it's not 100% confirmed to be the same place in OoT and TP, but most of the places in there are also not quite confirmed to be recurring. My question is if recurrence is really the criteria we want to use, and if so what do we define as recurring.--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 01:32, April 2, 2011 (UTC) :This isn't "recurring" as far as being the 100% confirmed same location goes, but in that locations that share the same name appear in multiple games. --AuronKaizer ''' 02:29, April 2, 2011 (UTC) Skyward Sword Okay, so it seems like in Skyward Sword, Debbie Mr. Fabulous Ghirahim doesn't refer to Hyrule by that name, rather using names the the Surface and the World Below or some such. Methinks this is because the kingdom of Hyrule has not yet been established (which connects into my "theory" that Zelda is not yet a princess, or at the very least, not a princess of Hyrule - a discussion for another time). Should we then really be referring to said land as Hyrule (like we're doing now), or create a separate article when we get a proper set name for it (like we're not doing now)? --AuronKaizer ' 03:05, June 13, 2011 (UTC) :As far as I can tell, Hyrule refers to the kingdom, which apparently has not been established yet. If we ever get a decent name for this, we should use that name and make a separate page. Jedimasterlink (talk) 03:35, June 13, 2011 (UTC) ::Due to a video released recently, there's a location called "Eldin Volcano". Should we make a page for it? — Blaze fire12 (talk) 04:09, September 13, 2011 (UTC) Don't change the subject, please. It's quite urgent that we settle on this. I think creating an article called "Surface", which seems to be the official term for it as far as I know, appears to be the best course of action. --Auron'Kaizer ' 22:06, October 7, 2011 (UTC) :We can either leave it like it is now until the game is released (since we don't know how the entire story will unfold) or we can make a preemptive change and make a new page for Surface and move all the info for SS there (if it is referred to as Hyrule in-game we can move it back). I would have no problem with either, but I am probably in favor of the latter which happens to be AK's proposal. --EveryDayJoe45 (talk) 19:50, October 11, 2011 (UTC) I say that we make a page for the Surface. New info coming out might be hinting on how Hylians got their name and it wasn't from the land being called Hyrule. This leads me to believe that the Surface is later named Hyrule after the Hylians. This is speculation based on translated information out of Japan for now though. What we do know is that the world is never called Hyrule and is always refereed to as The Surface in all the information we have. --Birdman5589 (talk) 17:12, October 14, 2011 (UTC) The article now contridicts itself It explains the Skyward Sword origin of the Master Sword and Demise's role in it, and then immediatly gives Twilight Princess's version of events where it says the Sages created the Master Sword. So...what should we do? Evnyofdeath 22:45, November 17, 2011 (UTC) Redirect 'The Surface' We made such a small section on the surface, when its much more of an article! We should actually create an entire article on the surface. Still leaving that section in this article. Kata89 :Would it really have taken so much effort to find the discussion on the very same subject that's already on this very talk page? --Auron'Kaizer ' 23:34, December 7, 2011 (UTC) Dispute I believe my edits as of 02:00, January 22, 2013‎, are of superior quality to the current revision- 02:26, January 22, 2013, For these reasons: *It goes beyond Geography and accounts for possible political reasons. *It backs up that idea with possible evidence of such an occurrence. *The current version excludes any other possible explanations for Hyrule looking different from game to game. Propositions: *Revert to my revisions. *Create a new section with this information. Ultimate2009 (talk) :I propose you base your edits on some actual facts and don't act like an argumentative, spoiled brat about it next time. --Auron'Kaizer ' 03:46, January 22, 2013 (UTC) How are they not based on facts? You see border and landmark changes emanating from political means in the real world all the time! The Shad quote implies some sort annexation, like after a war perhaps. This isn't confirmed by Nintendo of course, (so not technically a fact) but that's why we have a theory label! Also, keep out your insults, they do nothing but waste time. Ultimate2009 (talk) :Shaky reasoning, at best. That only sheds light on that particular game and system of rule; there's nothing that suggests this occurs in other games. You're giving Nintendo way too much credit; for better or worse, their focus remains set on providing a different world experience rather than consistency regarding things like this. --Auron'Kaizer ' 04:38, January 22, 2013 (UTC) ::Your edit also didn't address what's ''actually being discussed — the apparent changes between locations with the same name between games. Your edit was about new territories that get added to Hyrule in new games. You mention things like the possible annexation of Ordona being explained by warfare or political changes...but if Hyrule gained land, did they move everything, including their capital, to that new area? Did Death Mountain get moved to a new mountain range that Hyrule won from another country? Did Lake Hylia change in size because Hyrule conquered more land to fit it in? Political changes cannot explain the differences we see in landmarks of the same name, unless the people of Hyrule rename every nearby desert the Gerudo Desert, and every nearby forest the Lost Woods. As for adding your information in a new section...it doesn't seem all that relevant to me because we don't ever see any evidence that other nations even exist (besides alternate universes like Termina), but I guess I wouldn't be strictly opposed to it. Also, a word of advice: next time, take your issues to the talk page right away. Insistently adding stuff back to articles without even attempting to resolve the issue with words is considered edit warring and is a blockable offense if done repeatedly. ''Xykeb Yvolix '' 05:00, January 22, 2013 (UTC) Sorry. Ultimate2009 (talk) Location of Zelda II Hi, I've been looking around the wiki and I don't seem to find anything about this theory I remember. It is something which would either go here or in the Zelda II article. A long time ago (like around when Ocarina of Time was the newest game) the theory was that the original Legend of Zelda happened in the same portion of Hyrule depicted in most of the other games, but that Zelda II does not. The land in the Legend of Zelda has fallen in complete disrepair with only a handful of Hyruleans remaining. Those people who stayed were elderly hermits who refused to leave. Meanwhile, Zelda II happens in the lands to the north and on an island to the east of what is traditionally depicted of Hyrule. The main evidence of this is that you can see houses north of Death Mountain in Link to the Past when you cross bridges, and that Death Mountain/Spectacle Rock are to the far southwest of the map. Anyway, the theory suggests that between Link's Awakening and The Legend of Zelda a path through the mountains eventually allowed additional travel to the north. The Kingdom of Hyrule conquers or absorbs the lands to the north and the island to the east. Then either a better availability of jobs and resources or an influx of monsters related to the return of Ganon causes a mass exodus of the remaining citizens to the other areas. Anybody else have info about this old theory or additional information? Any suggestion on the proper location to document it if it is worth inclusion? Hero of Mime (talk)